Needle Route Description

[BillMiddlebrook]

I did it.

I changed the standard Crestone Needle route description on 14ers.com to use the East Gully Direct as the preferred line and changed the old crossover to be a variation, described at the end of the route description.

Last year we figured out that the chunk of rock that made for an easier crossing of the gully was washed out a while back. This made the crossover even more difficult and IMO the difficulty was raised enough that the crossover option was no longer easier than taking the direct line up the entire east gully. And we've always known the crossover option is a bit more complicated. Hopefully this change will also reduce the possibility of people getting off-route on the mountain.

Oh, and I'm going with Class 4 on the difficulty.

[CheapCigarMan]

You've kept the Crossover as a variation route. Well thought out.

[bdloftin77]

Thanks, Bill! I'm sure this will help alleviate incidents on the Needle. As always, appreciate all your work!

[nsaladin]

I did it.

I change the standard Crestone Needle route description on 14ers.com to use the East Gully Direct as the preferred line and changed the old crossover to be a variation, described at the end of the route description.

Last year we figured out that the chunk of rock that made for an easier crossing of the gully was washed out a while back. This made the crossover even more difficult and IMO the difficulty was raised enough that the crossover option was no longer easier than taking the direct line up the entire east gully. And we've always known the crossover option is a bit more complicated. Hopefully this change will also reduce the possibility of people getting off-route on the mountain.

Oh, and I'm going with Class 4 on the difficulty.

Great call! Will be interesting to see how the number of rescues/recoveries either decreases or increases. My bet is on decreases.

[XterraRob]

Thank you Bill.

[yaktoleft13]

Definitely the right call. I'm strongly in favor of making a route less convoluted and more natural rather than trying to to make it slightly less hard technically. No reason to complicate things to try to keep it 3rd class when the 4th class option makes way more sense

[Kiefer]

Good call on the class-4 rating as well.

Just a thought, with all the rains we have been getting and I'm sure, some of the more recent accidents which,
could probably be partly attributed to the excess moisture, what do you think about creating a blanket statement across
all route descriptions addressing the possibility of an uptick in route difficulty/hazards due to wet rock, slippage, slides etc?
I think many folks go into the backcountry for hikes/scrambles/climbs knowing it could rain but don't really think
about the effect water has on a route/rock quality until they're directly faced with it.

Thoughts?

[nsaladin]

Good call on the class-4 rating as well.

Just a thought, with all the rains we have been getting and I'm sure, some of the more recent accidents which,
could probably be partly attributed to the excess moisture, what do you think about creating a blanket statement across
all route descriptions addressing the possibility of an uptick in route difficulty/hazards due to wet rock, slippage, slides etc?
I think many folks go into the backcountry for hikes/scrambles/climbs knowing it could rain but don't really think
about the effect water has on a route/rock quality until they're directly faced with it.

Thoughts?

Also a good idea. I did the needle after a little rain, and a microwave sized rock came down the north gulley as I was ascending it. Even the mountains that are known for being super solid, let one loose every once in awhile.

[Gulf_Coast_Hiker]

Good call on the class-4 rating as well.

Just a thought, with all the rains we have been getting and I'm sure, some of the more recent accidents which,
could probably be partly attributed to the excess moisture, what do you think about creating a blanket statement across
all route descriptions addressing the possibility of an uptick in route difficulty/hazards due to wet rock, slippage, slides etc?
I think many folks go into the backcountry for hikes/scrambles/climbs knowing it could rain but don't really think
about the effect water has on a route/rock quality until they're directly faced with it.

Thoughts?

Definitely. I'm coming out this weekend to hike. But thanks to this site and forum I realize that even the "easier" 14ers that I'll be attempting can become much riskier due to the conditions. I appreciate you all and thanks much to Bill!!

[BillMiddlebrook]

Good idea, Kiefer.

I can do site-wide route notifications but have to be careful not to over use them because they may start to be ignored because there are a bunch of individual routes which already have alerts.

Maybe a forum post like this one, with an eye-catching icon so it’s obvious? It could then be bumped over the next few weeks.

[E_A_Marcus_949]

Great change. I like the "variation" part too. Thanks for all you do!

[BillMiddlebrook]

My pleasure.

Yeah, I couldn't just ditch the crossover variation since it it's a good climb on its own and the west gully is fun. Basically, I just switched the main and variations in the route description since the "direct east gully" used to be described as the variation.